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What Would You Do Answers: The case of the demanding boss

A person pointing at someone in blame, while the person being blamed covers their face.

Earlier this month, we shared a situation where a boss demanded a Notary’s tools just as the Notary was getting ready to move to a new job. The boss threatened to withhold the Notary’s last paycheck if the Notary refused to turn over the seal and journal.

We asked our Notary readers: How would you handle this situation?

What Notaries said

Readers agreed that the seal and journal belonged to the Notary, even if the boss paid for them.

“My former employer actually attempted this, aside from threatening to withhold my wages,” a Notary named Miranda wrote. “I verified that everything did, in fact, belong to me, and they had no legal claim to my stamp, book, or bond.”

“I have all the documentation together for my Notary commission, including the information that the (Notary commission and tools) belong to the person whose name is on the seal,” said Tabatha Tuskey. “I would produce that information and remind them that it is illegal to withhold a paycheck, but I would be more than willing to contact the Board of Labor and get them involved if necessary.”

J.D. Walker raised concerns that the employer could use the stamp and journal illegally once the tools are out of the Notary’s hands. “If the employer is adamant about the Notary turning over the seal and journal, who knows what they intend to do with it? They may order another employee to use it illegally, and then the departing Notary is on the hook,” he said.

The NNA’s recommendation

A Notary should never turn their tools over to an employer unless state law permits it. Many states, such as California, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Texas and Florida (where this scenario took place), specify that the Notary’s seal and journal are the sole property of the Notary, even if an employer or someone else paid for them.

In California, an employer has the right to request copies of journal records for transactions directly associated with the business purposes of the employer as long as the copies are made in the presence of the Notary by a duly designated auditor or agent of the employer (GC 8206[d]). As you are preparing to leave, you could offer to permit the employer to make copies of these business-related journal entries if the employer has not already requested it. You should also warn the employer that California law states that confidentiality and safekeeping of these copies is the responsibility of the employer.

The only two states with exceptions to this rule are Arizona and Oregon. Arizona allows Notaries working under certain conditions to keep a separate journal for nonpublic records protected by confidentiality rules such as attorney-client privilege. An Arizona nonpublic journal may be kept by the employer if the Notary leaves the job.

Oregon Notaries may sign a written agreement to allow an employer to keep the journal if the Notary leaves the job, but the Notary must keep one copy of the agreement and send a second copy to the Oregon Secretary of State’s office.

We have not heard from the Notary yet about how this situation ultimately turned out, but we will post an update if they contact us.

David Thun is the Editorial Manager at the National Notary Association.

6 Comments

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Catherine frazier

04 Aug 2024

I would destroy my seal, just like all should do when it expires or you retire from notary work.

L Scofield

30 Jul 2024

My former employer, an Arizona attorney, paid for my notary commission and supplies and withheld the amount they paid from my last paycheck. I guess that was fair, although I worked at that attorney's office a couple of years and performed many notarial acts with no charge to anyone.

Joan Stanley

29 Jul 2024

If they try to tell you that your notary stamp and journal are theirs because they bought them they are wrong. Provide them with authoritative proof, ie your state rules handbook, and advise them you have taken an oath with the State to uphold their rules. As an employer they should be well aware of their obligation to abide by state laws and regulations - because that's all you're doing afterall.

Joan Stanley

29 Jul 2024

It's hard to prove when a boss pressures us. But it's much cheaper to lose your job instead of being sued over the potential consequences. There is never a good reason to turn over your notary supplies to anyone ever. Further, any employer who does not pay you is breaking other employment rules and that offense can be brought to the attention of DPOR - at a minimum they'll advise you what your options are to pursue legal relief. But first, try to diffuse the situation with your employer by showing them the notary handbook, or an official NNA article, which specifies that, in all cases, that the notary supplies are our personal property - not company property EVEN if they paid for your notary commission. This can be accomplished diplomatically in the hopes that it diffuses then tension of the situation and any threats of losing your employment when you won't comply.

Stephanie Salonen

29 Jul 2024

What about Minnesota Law? Can my employer ask me to return my Notary Stamp if I leave my company? They did pay for it… we have been told we will need to return our stamp if we move on to another company.

National Notary Association

29 Jul 2024

Hello. In Minnesota, “The official notarial stamp, and the notary’s official journal, are the personal property of the notary and are exempt from execution” (MS 359.03, Subd. 1). “[E]ven if you became a notary as a function of your employment, the stamp and journal are your personal property” (MN Secretary of State's website, "Notary Commission Guide").

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